PGP will not work with Panther XL USB ver 3

[jdb2]

Hello. I'm a long time Panther XL user and have recently been playing Crysis 2 multiplayer with my new USB ver 3 PXL ( modded by Steveo ) in keystick mode with no problems. However, I wanted to take advantage of the features offered by PGP, especially the automatic sprinting.

The ver 3 PXL uses the B-Spec Labs AKI 3.0 Joystick Interface and when switched into analog USB joystick mode via akiconfig it shows up as two
"AKI3 ID01 Joystick" entries in "Game Controllers" as a generic 6-axis 14-button USB joystick.

The problem I'm having is similar to the problem that rennervision ( who recommended PGP to me ) was having in this post ( I have the same controller as him but mine has been modded with the new Logitech G400 3600 DPI gaming mouse which doesn't affect the joystick section so it's basically the same ). That is, when I try running the device setup wizard I get bogus axis mappings and my joystick movement doesn't register in "test axis selections." Also, when I press a key it doesn't register in the wizard. This translates into no character output when I'm in say, Notepad. Note that my joystick USB cable is connected through a hub but I'm basically out of USB ports. I don't see what difference this would make.

Here's my device info. Note that I've manually set the axis mappings :

Device Name:    AKI3 ID01 Joystick
Device ID:    VID_16C0&PID_07B3

Digital Buttons:    14
Analog Joysticks:    2
Individual Axes:    2
Direction Pads:    0
Axis Assignments:    1H=X AXIS;1V=Y AXIS;2H=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION);2V=Z AXIS;1A=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION);2A=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION)
Calibration:    H=32767:32767:32767 V=32767:32767:32767
ImageGuide:    YES
Force Feedback:    NO
XINPUT Device:    NO
Device Flags:    0

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

jdb2

[Pinnacle [Rob]]

Ok, I see your axis mappings are set to the following...
1H=X AXIS;1V=Y AXIS;2H=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION);2V=Z AXIS;1A=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION);2A=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION)

You might need those other axes then too, but for now just focus on joystick 1 and the X AXIS/Y AXIS. Try going to PREFERENCES > DEVICE SETTINGS > ADVANCED and there you can manually set your axis mappings. Try using "X AXIS (Classic)" and "Y AXIS (Classic)" instead to see if that makes a difference. Also that could effect the way your buttons are being read too, so be sure to test the button functionality again too.

[jdb2]

Ok, I see your axis mappings are set to the following...
1H=X AXIS;1V=Y AXIS;2H=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION);2V=Z AXIS;1A=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION);2A=DISABLED (NO FUNCTION)

You might need those other axes then too, but for now just focus on joystick 1 and the X AXIS/Y AXIS. Try going to PREFERENCES > DEVICE SETTINGS > ADVANCED and there you can manually set your axis mappings. Try using "X AXIS (Classic)" and "Y AXIS (Classic)" instead to see if that makes a difference. Also that could effect the way your buttons are being read too, so be sure to test the button functionality again too.

Thanks for the tip! The WASD keystrokes now show up in notepad but the buttons still do not work.

Also, when I start Crysis 2 and go into "Controls->Keyboard" and try to remap a key by pressing a joystick button nothing happens; Instead after I press escape the menu selection highlight starts to constantly move rapidly up and then cycles from the bottom again. I have to repeatedly press escape to get out of the menu system and then click "Yes" to quit just at the right time. Strange.

Regards,

jdb2

[jdb2]

The joystick buttons seem to be associated in some way with Joystick #2.
When I'm in the "Edit Configurations" window and I press a key and hold it at first nothing happens, then briefly the corresponding key will light up on the image guide before a selection box pops up over the [no command] under Joystick #2.

In fact, the selection box will constantly pop up even if I don't press anything.

What's going on here? :P

jdb2

[jdb2]

In fact, the selection box will constantly pop up even if I don't press anything.
jdb2

Furthermore, it always grabs the window focus so trying to do anything in the "Edit Configurations" window is almost impossible. Also, I've noticed that when I do edit commands while the selection box grabs focus PGP will sometimes gray out the current window and crash. Sounds like a bug to me.

jdb2

[jdb2]

*BUMP*

I really need some help. I'm a registered user ( a few days ago ) and I really need to get this working, otherwise I will have wasted my money.
Plus, there are features that PGP provides that can be really useful in an FPS.

jdb2

[jdb2]

The joystick buttons seem to be associated in some way with Joystick #2.
When I'm in the "Edit Configurations" window and I press a key and hold it at first nothing happens, then briefly the corresponding key will light up on the image guide before a selection box pops up over the [no command] under Joystick #2.

In fact, the selection box will constantly pop up even if I don't press anything.

What's going on here? :P

jdb2

Joystick #2 is the throttle. PGP seems to think it's getting spurious signals from Joystick #2, which according to Windows "Game Controllers" can only be in an on or an off state. But, if I check Windows "Game Controllers" I see that it is not acting up -- it must be PGP.

Also, in the "Edit Configurations" window I have to repeatedly press or hold down a button to get it to register. This is again in contrast to Windows "Game controllers" where if I press a button the corresponding on screen button lights up immediately.

Furthermore, in contrast to the "Test axis selections" in the device setup wizard in PGP, in Windows "Game Controllers" when I move the joystick I clearly see the corresponding movement on-screen.

All this points to a problem with PGP since Windows has no problem with my controller.

jdb2

[Pinnacle [Rob]]

Well, I think it's a big leap to say Windows has no problem simply because that tester window seems to read it properly... that's like saying if it was working in one area of PGP that there must not be a problem anywhere and that's not true of course. So it's entirely possible that the Windows tester screen seems to cleanly indicate the button being pressed... that doesn't mean it actually is working 100% normally and conforming to the standards of a normal commercial device... it just means that the Windows tester screen appears to function properly. Maybe it is functioning properly... but at this point you've only convinced me that it appears that way.

The reason I put it that way is simple... PGP isn't doing any "magic" to read the device... it just uses the APIs supplied by Microsoft Windows to read the device. PGP works with every controller on the market and the only problems I've ever heard of with ANY device is a couple of hacked drivers or garbage devices for $5 from China. If you had experience with more devices, you would come to the same conclusion. So your controller is not standard and it would seem clear to me that it's not conforming to standards. It might be "good enough" for some applications, but that doesn't mean it's the same as a Logitech or Saitek controller. Another consideration is that in the world of controllers, there is such a thing as being a working device but not having proper support for DX, and I don't even mean "it won't work with DX", but DirectX is a complicated library (to say the least) and when someone starts making custom support for a driver, I would be shocked if it were done 100% properly... in fact I would be willing to bet that it would not be done 100% properly.

As I mentioned, I'll be happy to look into this more if you want to do some testing and see what we can find out, but it's simply not logical to make the assumptions you are making about a hacked device. Maybe it is a bug in PGP, but more than likely it's a bug in the device's internal handling of DX, and I'm almost certain it's not backward-compatible with classic API libraries, and that would probably be the only way I would even think for 1 second that it was created properly.

There are APIs from Windows 95 that should work properly with any device... I've run into a device or two (like those generic $5 controllers from China) that don't work properly with those classic APIs, and that's a red flag that it's not done to standards. Regardless of if your Panther works with those, I'm trying to instill in you the thought that making a controller device to conform to proper standards is easier said than done and getting a response from Windows when you push a button doesn't mean the maker of the hacked device should stand up and yell "my driver is perfect!" because there is a lot more to do. Trust me, I probably know more about the DirectX gaming library than just about anyone outside of Microsoft.

So the info you provide is helpful if we are gonna figure this out, but continuing to say "Windows has no problems, it's perfect and therefore PGP is the problem"... that isn't very helpful, and I'm 99.9% sure that's inaccurate, but most importantly I think it's a simple lack of the experience that I have with these devices and PGP's code. It's not as if each of the hundreds of controllers that PGP users are playing with everyday each have their own code to handle them... they all go through the same functions and when you send a custom hacked Panther XL controller through and something strange happens... it seems reasonable to me to first suspect there is something unusual about the device and not that the code that is based on the MSDN documentation and works with every other device that is applied to the code.

I know you are anxious to get it working, and I'll help you try to do that... but *bumping* a thread when it's already the topmost post is a little odd... you just posted an hour before you did that. Did you really think there was someone reading your posts and ignoring them? Maybe you didn't realize it was already on top. If I could snap my fingers and make your device work, I would... but if you really want it to work, then please try to be a little more patient.

[jdb2]

Well, I think it's a big leap to say Windows has no problem simply because that tester window seems to read it properly... that's like saying if it was working in one area of PGP that there must not be a problem anywhere and that's not true of course. So it's entirely possible that the Windows tester screen seems to cleanly indicate the button being pressed... that doesn't mean it actually is working 100% normally and conforming to the standards of a normal commercial device... it just means that the Windows tester screen appears to function properly. Maybe it is functioning properly... but at this point you've only convinced me that it appears that way.

The reason I put it that way is simple... PGP isn't doing any "magic" to read the device... it just uses the APIs supplied by Microsoft Windows to read the device. PGP works with every controller on the market and the only problems I've ever heard of with ANY device is a couple of hacked drivers or garbage devices for $5 from China. If you had experience with more devices, you would come to the same conclusion. So your controller is not standard and it would seem clear to me that it's not conforming to standards. It might be "good enough" for some applications, but that doesn't mean it's the same as a Logitech or Saitek controller. Another consideration is that in the world of controllers, there is such a thing as being a working device but not having proper support for DX, and I don't even mean "it won't work with DX", but DirectX is a complicated library (to say the least) and when someone starts making custom support for a driver, I would be shocked if it were done 100% properly... in fact I would be willing to bet that it would not be done 100% properly.

The AKI chip is not a "hack" -- it conforms to the USB 2.0 specs and it is a "commercial device" sold by B-Spec Labs. In fact, the joystick is a normal USB 2.0 HID device. There are no drivers. Also, my device, in joystick mode, works with games that support joysticks.

As I mentioned, I'll be happy to look into this more if you want to do some testing and see what we can find out, but it's simply not logical to make the assumptions you are making about a hacked device. Maybe it is a bug in PGP, but more than likely it's a bug in the device's internal handling of DX, and I'm almost certain it's not backward-compatible with classic API libraries, and that would probably be the only way I would even think for 1 second that it was created properly.

There are APIs from Windows 95 that should work properly with any device... I've run into a device or two (like those generic $5 controllers from China) that don't work properly with those classic APIs, and that's a red flag that it's not done to standards. Regardless of if your Panther works with those, I'm trying to instill in you the thought that making a controller device to conform to proper standards is easier said than done and getting a response from Windows when you push a button doesn't mean the maker of the hacked device should stand up and yell "my driver is perfect!" because there is a lot more to do. Trust me, I probably know more about the DirectX gaming library than just about anyone outside of Microsoft.

As I said there is no driver. It is a standard USB 2.0 compliant HID device.

So the info you provide is helpful if we are gonna figure this out, but continuing to say "Windows has no problems, it's perfect and therefore PGP is the problem"... that isn't very helpful, and I'm 99.9% sure that's inaccurate, but most importantly I think it's a simple lack of the experience that I have with these devices and PGP's code. It's not as if each of the hundreds of controllers that PGP users are playing with everyday each have their own code to handle them... they all go through the same functions and when you send a custom hacked Panther XL controller through and something strange happens... it seems reasonable to me to first suspect there is something unusual about the device and not that the code that is based on the MSDN documentation and works with every other device that is applied to the code.

There is no driver or "code" to speak of as I've said. And I'll repeat that it works with games that support joysticks. It just a normal USB 2.0 compliant HID device.

I know you are anxious to get it working, and I'll help you try to do that... but *bumping* a thread when it's already the topmost post is a little odd... you just posted an hour before you did that. Did you really think there was someone reading your posts and ignoring them? Maybe you didn't realize it was already on top. If I could snap my fingers and make your device work, I would... but if you really want it to work, then please try to be a little more patient.

Point taken. I did think I was being ignored though -- I stand corrected.

jdb2

[jdb2]

I stated that my controller/joystick works with games that support joysticks. Well, I haven't tested it on any newer games lately so I bought H.A.W.X. 2 Deluxe Edition.

Everything works *perfectly*. The joystick, the throttle, the buttons, and the hats. Setting up my controller in "controller layout" for Joystick mode was a breeze and I had absolutely no problems. Gameplay works perfectly as well. It's actually quite a nice game.

jdb2